Many writers find themselves wrestling with experiences that fall outside linear time, logic, or the way stories are “supposed” to unfold. In this final Ask Me Anything episode of 2025, I sit down with my student Linda McKittrick to talk about how to weave the spiritual, the uncanny, and the beyond-belief into memoir with clarity, groundedness, and literary intention. From magical realism to lyric memoir, we explore the craft choices that honor your truth while still guiding your readers. Let’s dive in!
Lisa Cooper Ellison [0:03]
Well, hello. Welcome to the Writing Your Resilience podcast, Linda McKittrick. I am so excited to have you here—both because I love you and because this is the last Ask Me Anything episode of 2025, and it will also be my 98th episode of the podcast. Can you believe it?
Linda McKittrick [1:35]
No. Love that. Congratulations.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [1:35]
Well, thank you very much. I’m excited and delighted that you get to be part of this. As always, I like to give my guests the first chance to tell us about themselves. So, what would you like us to know about you?
Linda McKittrick [1:35]
I am young in my writing life, and I’ve benefited incredibly from working with you. I’m someone who loves nature—spending most of my days outside. I love gardening and ranching and seed-saving… anything to do with the elements.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [1:51]
And earlier this year, you had some baby goats.
Linda McKittrick [1:59]
Yes, I did.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [1:59]
What stage would you say your goats are?
Linda McKittrick [1:59]
They are about eight and a half, nine months old, and adorable—already showing interest in being mothers.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [2:07]
Oh! Well then. I was going to ask if they were teenage goats, but it sounds like they’re young adult goats at this point.
Linda McKittrick [2:15]
Yes, they are. They act like teenagers, but they’re young adults.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [2:17]
Oh, frisky. Frisky. I can’t wait to see what you write about when it comes to that, because I think there could be some juicy stuff there. But today we’re going to talk about a very specific issue that’s on your heart—related to your writing and what you’d like to add to it. So, share your question with all of us.
Linda McKittrick [2:40]
So I’m learning about memoir with you, and I find that when I’m writing—because I used to do AIDS and hospice work, and a lot of death work, and in ranching you’re around the cycles of living and dying—there’s an unseen part of life that I experience as real.
I don’t know that I summon it, but it seems to be summoned into the writing. And I’m wondering how that works with memoir—this kind of time-out-of-time space that exists in life but isn’t really accessible in linear time or in the kind of straightforward story most humans tell about “the human Linda McKittrick.”
I just wonder how to incorporate… can you? Is it okay to incorporate mythical time and mystical experiences into memoir?
Lisa Cooper Ellison [3:32]
Such a great question. And I think it’s a question a lot of writers are going to be wrestling with as we continue to experiment with the genre—especially as more people have experiences of awakening or begin to see the world differently.
So how do we handle that?
First, I want to talk about the mystical as I describe it to other writers who are trying to work with experiences in the spiritual or mystical realm—those deeply personal experiences that are hard to describe, and experiences that go beyond what we might call “fact.”
I call all those experiences “beyond belief.” And it’s not that they’re unbelievable; it’s just that for many people, they haven’t had these experiences—perhaps yet, or ever—so it can be beyond their capacity to believe.
We want to honor our truth while also respecting where our readers are. When we write about mystical space in memoir, we need to be clear about what that is. Some of that clarity comes from reading examples, and I’ll share some books where authors do this beautifully.
The other piece is addressing the skepticism. If you share something that is “beyond belief,” you can speak directly to the reader: I get that you may not have had this experience, or I hear the doubter in you. There are ways to create buy-in by acknowledging the gap between your experience and theirs.
Some writers don’t bother with any of that. They say, “My reader is whoever shows up. They’ll either go on this journey or not.” That’s a valid choice. It depends on what you want your book to do and what you want readers to take from it.
Then there’s the question of craft: How do I write about mystical experiences in memoir?
There are two strategies I want to talk about. The first is magical realism.
Magical realism is a literary device often found in speculative or science fiction, but also in literary work. It’s where mystical elements are added to a real-world story while remaining distinct from everyday, three-dimensional reality—the plot of ordinary life.
You see magical realism frequently in Latinx/Latine writing. Some great examples:
- Beloved by Toni Morrison. Yes, it’s a novel—but it does the same emotional work memoir often does. Morrison brings in the ghost and the spirit realm to navigate the horrors of slavery and post-slavery.
- The Woman Warrior by Maxine Hong Kingston. A stunning braiding of memoir, her mother’s stories, and Chinese myths.
- Ocean Vuong’s memoir-adjacent work about his mother—lyric, mystical, deeply embodied.
- Anne Batchelder (who was on this podcast). In Craving Spring, she uses a mythical character—Malvado—to personify fear. It’s a powerful way to talk about the energies that follow us through life.
Listeners: if you’re thinking, whoa, that was a lot, don’t worry—these will all be in the show notes.
Reading across genres—memoir and novels—can give you examples of how writers incorporate mystical elements.
As I share this, what’s coming to mind for you?
Linda McKittrick [10:05]
I’m thrilled. I’m not even a painter, but I feel like I have one of those painter palettes with all the colors that I can now play with.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [10:05]
Beautiful. Here’s something I’m going to say about this—and I’ll also say it about the next part, which is the lyric essay and lyric memoir. Once again, you want to think about who your reader is, what they can take in, and how they take it in.
Because the more you bring in the mystical, and the more complexity you create through language, the more your reader has to work to make meaning and to make sense of what you’re saying. And that’s fine—you, as the artist, get to make that decision. But the more opaque things are, the harder it is for readers to fully grasp your intention.
As a result, your readership may be smaller. And again, that’s completely okay; some writers don’t care about that. It’s a choice. You just want to keep those elements in mind.
Thank you for that, because it leads us straight into the lyric memoir or lyric essay. In creative nonfiction, lyric pieces often work together to create a memoir-in-essays—that’s a common structure.
A lyric essay is an essay rooted in experimentation, where language plays a primary role. There’s play with language—using metaphors, extended metaphors, and poetic devices. Metaphor can even serve as a way to talk about magical realism. You can use magical realism elements that carry a metaphorical function in the narrative, weaving poetry into prose.
So, the pacing will feel different. The movement of the sentences will feel different. And readers will need to work harder to make meaning. Nothing is spoon-fed, as happens more often in traditional storytelling.
Some great examples include Be with Me Always by Randon Billings Noble—that’s a beautiful example. Men We Reaped by Jesmyn Ward is another great lyric memoir. And Lydia Yuknavitch’s The Chronology of Water, which recently came out as a movie.
There are many others, and I’ll include a link in the show notes to an Electric Literature article that lists ten different lyric memoirs. So, I don’t have to list them all here, but you’ll have excellent selections.
And remember—you can combine magical realism with lyricism to create something truly interesting. The key will be reading widely, practicing often, and having beta readers from your intended reader pool give you feedback about what they’re taking from the work.
Linda McKittrick [13:13]
Excellent. Yes—and I will need that for grounding.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [13:17]
Yeah. Because I think one of the traps that sometimes happens—and I’ve seen this with writers I’ve worked with—is that lyricism can become a shield to keep you from talking about the self. That’s something to be genuinely curious about: Why am I drawn to this form?
Is it creating a shield around me? Or is it allowing me to say something about myself and my experiences that can be said in no other way?
Linda McKittrick [13:50]
Okay. Yeah. For me, it feels freeing, but I always have an eye toward needing to share more of myself.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [14:00]
Yeah, yeah. And so, when that’s the case, we want to be curious about what parts of ourselves are wanting to stay hidden.
And with magical realism, of course, there are the spiritual or mystical elements that happen outside of us. But we can also look at the spiritual and mystical elements inside of us and think about how all that weaves together.
I have someone coming on the podcast in 2026 who I’m incredibly excited about—Atash Yaghmaian. She wrote My Name Means Fire. This memoir… oh my gosh. I am absolutely in love with it.
It’s about living with dissociative identity disorder and having that manifest during the Iranian Revolution. So, you have the experience of living in Iran during this massive political upheaval, coupled with trauma in the home.
Talk about mysticism and magical realism—she shares the world her trauma created, the parts of herself that emerged to stay safe and fracture away from the trauma. It’s one of the most stunning examples I’ve seen of using magical realism in memoir.
Linda McKittrick [15:33]
Well, that might be the first one I start with.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [15:37]
I’m just going to tell you—I’m fangirling right now. I’m so excited that I get to speak with her because her book caused me to lose so much sleep. That’s always a good sign—when I can’t go to bed because I want to find out what’s going to happen next.
Linda McKittrick [15:54]
Okay. That gives me goosebumps already. So… yeah.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [15:57]
Yeah, it’s really well done. And what I’ll say is this: she’s writing about high trauma, but it is not a traumatic read. At no point did I feel overwhelmed or retraumatized. I was simply captivated—so much so that I stayed up past my bedtime because I couldn’t stop turning the pages.
Linda McKittrick [16:20]
Right. And did you carry it with you the next day?
Lisa Cooper Ellison [16:23]
Oh yes. I carried it with me. I was excited to get back to it. And I don’t want to give anything away—I’ll wait for her interview. But I’m still thinking about the world she created and how she wove everything together to tell a story that’s incredibly difficult to tell.
Because of what dissociative identity disorder is—and because of the trauma she lived through—what she accomplished is remarkable.
Linda McKittrick [16:59]
Thank you for that. And I look forward to hearing her and seeing her soon. 2026, right?
Lisa Cooper Ellison [17:04]
Yes. Early 2026. So, listeners, if you’re thinking, I can’t wait for this episode, it will be here—late January or early February. I’m still finalizing the calendar, but that’s when you’ll hear it.
And explore—that would be my greatest invitation. Explore. Read these books. See what people have done.
Another great example of magical realism is We the Animals by Justin Torres. I absolutely love that book. I’ll add it to the list. It’s considered autofiction—it’s a novel, not fully based in reality, but drawing heavily from his life. Another gorgeous example.
Because ultimately, we want to experiment—and be very gentle with ourselves as we do.
Linda McKittrick [17:59]
I’m excited listening to all this, because it opens the whole writing world for me. But also—everything has light and dark, if you will. So, I want to keep an eye on where I might use it to avoid. Just… being aware.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [18:13]
Yes. And what I would say is that, like all aspects of the writing life, be incredibly gentle with yourself. Have compassion for all the parts of you—the ones who want to come to the page, and the ones who don’t. We all have parts that long to be invisible.
Linda McKittrick [18:34]
Right. Another segue—The Queen’s Path.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [18:37]
Yes—yes! Another segue to The Queen’s Path. Listeners, if you’re hearing this episode, that one is coming up in two episodes. My 100th episode will be with Stacey Simmons, who wrote The Queen’s Path. I am so excited about that.
And the last thing I’ll say is this: one of the reasons I created Ditch Your Inner Critic, my master class on shifting your mindset, is because of the parts of us that doubt our ability to come forward.
So if you’re wondering whether you have what it takes, or you start writing and think, I don’t know if I can put this in my book, or where, or how, that master class will teach you four simple steps to work with your inner critic and transform it into the support you want and need—because we all need that internal and external support.
Linda McKittrick [19:35]
Great. And I just want to say—you’re an exceptional and exquisite teacher. I have learned so much. You’ve grounded me and expanded me, and I appreciate it immensely.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [19:46]
It has been an absolute joy to work with you. And I’m excited for the day when people get to read your gorgeous writing. I’ve been privileged to hear excerpts from it for a year in our class, and it blows my mind. There are so many pieces you’ve written that stay with me.
I know they’ll stay with readers too, when the time is right for you to share this work with the world.
Linda McKittrick [20:17]
Thank you. That encourages me even more. I appreciate that.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [20:21]
If people would like to connect with you—if they want to talk about magical realism or mystical aspects of writing—what’s the best way for them to connect?
Linda McKittrick [20:32]
Right now, my email. It’s needleworker1—“needleworker” because I used to quilt a lot—needleworker1@mac.com.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [20:41]
So listeners, if you’d like to connect with Linda McKittrick, check the show notes for her email address. And if you have book recommendations for her—in magical realism, lyric essay, lyric memoir, or anything inspiring—or you just want to connect with her as a fellow writer, you’ll find her email there.
Linda McKittrick [21:03]
Lisa, thank you so much. One, this was just a joy and so much fun. And two, it opened the world again. So, thank you.
Lisa Cooper Ellison [21:11]
Thank you for being my student, for trusting this process, and for showing up in all the ways you do. It is an absolute pleasure to know you—and to know the heart of your writing.
Linda McKittrick [21:25]
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You’re helping it beat more—so thank you.
Many writers find themselves wrestling with experiences that fall outside linear time, logic, or the way stories are “supposed” to unfold. In this final Ask Me Anything episode of 2025, I sit down with my student Linda to talk about how to weave the spiritual, the uncanny, and the beyond-belief into memoir with clarity, groundedness, and literary intention. From magical realism to lyric memoir, we explore the craft choices that honor your truth while still guiding your readers. Let’s dive in!
