Does What I’m Writing Really Matter

Lisa [0:00]
Well, hello Amanda, I am so glad that you are on the Writing Your Resilience podcast. Welcome.

Amanda [0:04]
Thank you. I’m happy to be here.

Lisa [0:07]
So you and I met a few years back. You were running a podcast yourself, and you also live in Richmond, which is about an hour away from me. So, I’ve gotten a chance to meet you in person and to give you a hug, which you’re a great hugger, by the way. So, what would you like everyone to know about you as a writer and any of your projects?

Amanda [0:28]
I have two primary writing roles right now. One of them is I am the outdoors writer for Cooperative Living Magazine. So, every other month, I get to go on some great outdoor adventure. Usually, it’s in the state of Virginia. Occasionally, it’s in Tennessee or Kentucky or even Maryland. And then I write about the experience. For my most recent one, I got to go on a pontoon boat, and I went for up-close views of the ponies on Assateague and Chincoteague. So that was fun. But I’ve done everything from, you know, hikes to caves and visiting the Presidents Heads in Williamsburg and I’ve written about it for that magazine. So that’s a great writing role that I treasure. And then my other big role is I am a debut novelist. My very first novel launched in October, just this past October, and it’s called Unexpected End. And it’s a work of literary speculative fiction. It was traditionally published by a relatively new woman-owned small press out of Virginia Beach, so I kind of like to try to keep things local, or at least in-state. So, I was very pleased with that aspect. And even though it takes place in a world where people can find out when they’re going to die, it’s not really a book about death. It’s more a book about life, and what we decide to do with our life, how we decide to live it, and how we decide to spend our time—kind of a book about being human. And I feel like that’s maybe a good segue into the question that you and I came here to discuss today.

Lisa [1:50]
Yes, being human, and oh my gosh, is trying to be human while you’re writing so, so hard. So that does sound like a great segue. So, let’s dive into your question.

Amanda [2:02]
So the question that I’ve been pondering, but I think probably lots of writers and probably lots of people think about a lot, is an existential question, really. And it is, why does my work matter? And people might also conceive of that question as, who cares if or what I write? Or if or what I’m doing? Is anyone ever going to read this? Do I even care what I’m doing anymore? Why am I doing this? Does my work matter? And if it does, why? What’s important about it?

Lisa [2:31]
Yeah, and before I hit the record button, you and I were having this conversation about some of the drivers for this question for you personally. So, what’s bringing this to the front of your mind right now?

Amanda [2:43]
I think that my novel actually explores this question. And I’ve been working on—or did work on—the novel for, you know, gosh, the better part of five years, right? So, this was kind of the forefront of my professional mind, my creative mind, and my personal mind for a really long time. The project, the novel, played a pivotal role in my asking that question. So, like, make this truth style, I worked on the book for a long time. I would stay up way past my bedtime to work on it, I would get up early. And I mean, like 3:45 in the morning early, not like 5:00 AM early, like middle of the night early.

Lisa [3:18]
That is some dedication, by the way.

Amanda [3:22]
To work on this, I’m like drafting the book and writing the book. That was a very joyous, fulfilling, satisfying, wonderful journey. I would do that again in a heartbeat. But the revising process was less enjoyable, much more arduous than the actual writing process. So much work, so much effort, so much hope, so much time. And it really, you know, just being honest, it hasn’t sold that many copies, which I expected. But the numbers have been disappointing, even from my relatively realistic, I think, expectations. There hasn’t been much of a financial return. I’ve held readings, I’ve held signings, I’ve been to book club events. Many of them were very well attended and very engaging and inspiring and enjoyable and fulfilling. But then I’ve also had readings and events where nobody came or two people came and they were people that I knew that came out of, you know, support—moral support for me. So, when I’ve had these discouraging moments, that’s when I end up asking, like, why am I even doing this? And despite that, I’m doing it again. I’m revising a second novel. So obviously, there’s some reason I’m doing this, or I would have stopped after the debut novel. So, I don’t think I’m a glutton for punishment, but I am asking, not at all with the intent of stopping doing it, but what drives me? Why am I doing this?

Lisa [4:44]
And I think understanding that for yourself is so important because writing and publishing are two very different things. Writing and revising, which, yes, can be very grueling—that is so true. That is about creativity. That is about bringing forth into the world whatever, you know, your soul calls you to do, and you can interpret soul in whatever way you want. But something encourages you to do this work. Publishing is a business. And you know, the hard truth about the business of publishing is, most books don’t sell that many copies. You know, in fact, Jane Friedman, she writes about this stuff all the time on her paid newsletter, The Hot Sheet, and she did a study—this was a couple of years ago—and the average book sells less than 1000 copies.

Amanda [5:43]
Yes, I recently read an article, I think that that was part of her study, actually, or a result of her study, maybe.

Lisa [5:48]
And I was reading something this past week, and I can’t remember where I read it, they were saying about 400 to 700 that you could realistically expect. So, it is humbling and hard if you are an author, and you put all this work into it. And then, of course, there are all these people out in the world who love you and who think, “Oh, yeah, as soon as this book is published, oh my gosh, you’re going to be buying a mansion. You’re going to be able to quit your full-time day job, right?” You know, like the writer.

Amanda [6:18]
“You’re going to be able to quit your full-time day job, right?” You’re now The Writer, capital W.

Lisa [6:24]
Yes. And so, when you have all that happening, and then you face the realities of it, of course, anyone is going to question why do I do this? And yet you are doing it again. Some of the things that I tell people to think about are what is success for you. Now, this is something that Athena Dixon, she talks about that a lot, because success, and I agree with this part, should probably not be tied to book sales, right? It needs to be tied to something else, you know, getting that note from the reader, who says, “This book really touched me,” or “I love this idea,” or, you know, getting the ability to do other things. Like maybe your book has an interesting premise. So now you get to go talk about that premise to different people, or you get to, I don’t know, go to schools and talk about it at your school or at various schools. So, I think thinking about that for yourself and understanding what that is, is helpful. But then, you know, thinking about the bigger picture, what is it about writing that matters to me, and specifically writing this book, because you know, you’re a fiction writer, and I have your book is actually on my end table right now because my husband’s reading it. It’s about a fantastic premise. I love that premise. There’s so much great stuff with it. And you know, the very best books, whether they’re fiction or nonfiction, they are exploring a question inside of us—something that we don’t understand. And you know, in fiction, you might be, you know, testing the boundaries of it. Maybe you’re afraid of anger, so you’re going to write this really violent book so that you can explore the opposite end of anger or find ways to work through anger. I mean, there’s lots of ways that this can work. But thinking about what is that essential question inside myself, that really matters? That is the reason why I’m doing this writing. And so, if you think about this new project that you’re working on, or you can think about your other project, what do you think that question is for you?

Amanda [8:39]
Oh, that is a good question. You posed some other good questions in a recent edition of your newsletter. I actually think I emailed you and said, like, these are such good questions to get me thinking about our upcoming interview. And I think that there are lots of questions that drive me. And I think a lot of them are existential questions. And I think maybe the biggest question that drives me off the top of my head, in addition to the one we’re discussing right now, is what matters? Yeah. So less specifically does what I’m doing matter, is your question of like, what matters? Because that question, then you can answer all the other questions regarding your purpose, your meaning, your existence, your goals, your day-to-day choices, and which ones get you closer to what matters. But first, you have to figure out what that is. I think my debut novel explores that. And I think the second one I’m working on also is an attempt to answer that question, the discovery of what matters.

Lisa [9:36]
That’s exactly what I was going to say, as I know, your first book delves into that. So, you know, as you think about it, how do you see the world differently as a result of finishing your first book?

Amanda [9:51]
Oh, that’s a good question. I think right now, I’m not 100% sure I see the world differently. I think a lot of it is still pretty personal and small. I think right now, though, the little girl in me who always wanted to be a writer and like, I did it for her. You know, like, I’ve always wanted to do this thing. I’ve always wanted to hold my own book in my hand, and I did it. And some, in some ways, that’s enough, the self-satisfaction. I think you have to be somewhat intrinsically motivated, kind of like what you were talking about earlier to do this. It can’t all be for money or fame or publishing acclaim. You have to want to do it for yourself or for people or causes that matter to you. I do think that maybe it’s helped me shape a little bit of an understanding of the important things in life and what matters. So, I’m still exploring that. Like I said, it also kind of helped me question why writing matters so much. Which brings me back to your last newsletter, you asked, you asked, I have it in front of me, how do you show up in your life when you’ve taken the time to write? Yeah, how you show up in your life when you don’t take the time to write? And which version of yourself do you want to share with the world. So, if I’m not writing for acclaim, and I’m not writing for fame, and I’m not writing for money, and I’m not writing for publishing, I definitely show up better when I have written even just like a journal entry, or a paragraph or a sentence or two about what happened today. So maybe it doesn’t matter, maybe my products, or any writer’s products, especially if they’re only going to sell 400-700 copies, maybe the product doesn’t matter for the sake of the product, or for the work itself. The work itself might not garner anything or reach the audience we intended or make us money. But maybe just the act of doing that work allows a better version of ourselves to show up in the other areas of our lives, that might matter. Or they might have a greater reach. You know, we all want our novel or article or poem to reach an audience, make a difference, to make an impact, to make some positive waves. But if that doesn’t happen, are you able to make waves somewhere else? Because you did that? Because you got it off your chest? Or created that thing and felt good about it? Whatever it was?

Lisa [12:07]
Absolutely, that is a beautiful answer. And yeah, so when we show up differently, that reverberates out into our world. And it shows other people when we really focus on what matters to us. We give other people permission to focus on what matters for them. So, in some ways, you know, we are laying the foundations for other people to do things. And what I can say about your book, you know, the premise again, is just so great. And I think about it. So, I recently turned 50.

Amanda [12:42]
I recently turned 40. So, milestone happy birthday.

Lisa [12:45]
These milestone birthdays, they do so much. And you know, so when you get to these birthdays, you know, like this when you’re getting up there a little bit. We’re still young, but you know, you’re getting up there. It’s important to make room for joy. And make room for fun because I think something that can happen to a lot of writers is we get so attached to the outcome. I’ve got to get my book done. I’m going to focus on getting my book done. You know, let everything else go. And you do have to let some things go in order to be a writer. That is just the truth, if you want to get things done and especially if you’re not retired. You cannot do everything in your life. So, you have to figure out what’s important. But sometimes we forget that other things are important. And so, if we have shirked all the other things and pushed them away, and we have worked our tails off to figure out what this book is about, and get it done, and then the publishing experience doesn’t end up being what we would hope it to be. That’s a double disappointment. Yeah.

Amanda [15:30]
Definitely. It’s very painful. You, I think you’re right, that I hesitate to use the word balance, because I feel like that word’s gotten thrown around so much and actually feel like that pressurizes the situation. So maybe the better word would be prioritization. Yeah, I think you need to if you want to be a writer, I mean, first of all, let me just say to everyone listening, like if you write, you’re a writer. Exactly. I think a lot of us have this imposter syndrome. It’s like, “I’m not a writer until I have an article published. I’m not a writer until I have my MFA.” No, no, if you are writing with any sort of regularity, or compulsion or joy, you’re a writer, you qualify the requirement. But if you want to be very serious about your writing, and I don’t think it’s you don’t have to make it the only thing, right? It doesn’t need to be at the top of your priority list. But like, you know, people will say, you need to write every day. I know that that’s like a popular belief. You don’t write every day. I don’t write every day, and I’m widely published, and I have a novel, and I love writing, I do not get to write every day. It’s not realistic for me working full time and traveling the way I do, and, you know, you cannot write without living.

Lisa [16:49]
Yes, exactly.

Amanda [16:51]
That’s where your material comes from. Whether you’re writing fiction or nonfiction, your material comes from the life you have and lead outside of your writing. Art mirrors life, you know, there’s a reason for that saying. The life has to happen. So, it’s a priority. It’s not the end all be all. And you do have to prioritize it, especially when you’re in the middle of a project. It’s important, but things like family and love, yes, whatever else, you know, nature, your job, the thing that makes you, you know, puts the lights on in your house, right? Those are all things that have to be important too. And like you said, if your project doesn’t bring you the benefits and results that you thought, are you going to be satisfied if you sacrificed what you sacrificed for it?

Lisa [17:37]
Absolutely. Yes, you have to be doing it for the joy and in a balanced way. And I think that’s so important. Because if you don’t live life, it’s going to be really difficult in the same way that you know, if you are submitting your work places, I tell writers this all the time, don’t just submit it to one place. And then put all your eggs in that basket and all your hopes and dreams. Now, if you are submitting to certain kinds of places, like for instance, let’s say you submit to the The New York Times as an example, you cannot pitch the same story to another place. You can’t. You have to wait till they say no. And then you can submit it somewhere else. However, if you’re submitting to literary journals, submit to five places, don’t just stop with one. And even if you are pitching to these higher-level places, pitch two or three stories to different places so that you feel like there’s always another egg in the basket. Right? There’s another reason exactly, you have another way to hope. And I tell writers all the time, you know, when you get that rejection, which all of us receive rejections, that is a normal part of the writing process. And it doesn’t go away. As you write more, you do get some more yeses, but you also get more noes. You know, as soon as you get that rejection, get back out there. Be thoughtful about it. And if you know if your Spidey senses are saying, or you’re getting a bunch of form rejections, that’s a signal you need to do more work. Don’t just wildly send your work out, but thoughtfully say is more revision needed and then get it back out there, so you have something else to work on.

And as far as those book events, I think there’s two ways to handle that one. It is hard to put yourself out there and do these book events. And I know someone who’s a National Book Award-winning author, done all kinds of big things out in the world. And I was at a meeting with a bunch of different writers and people were talking about book launch events, and events at bookstores and different places. This is a big-name person; I’m not going to name them because it’s not necessary. But just to know, big-name person talked about the number of times they had the book event where it was her and the bookstore owner. Yeah, it happens a lot. And so, I think sometimes writing about that, and writing about that in a public way, not in a boohoo poor me kind of way or a manipulative way. But writing about that experience can also bring community in. Because the more you’re connected to the community of writers who get it and understand what this life is like and what you’re going through, the more you can feel less alone. Because I think a lot of these doubts, and these existential questions get louder. When we are by ourselves. Yeah. And they become, they can scream in our head. And that can make us feel like…
Why are we even doing this?

Amanda [21:11]
That’s true for any endeavor, right? Community is so important. If you have a support system and people who are doing the same things, trying the same things, and failing just as frequently as they’re succeeding, and you know you’re not alone, it makes everything so much easier. It makes every failure easier, every mistake easier, and every unattended book event easier.

Lisa [21:34]
Absolutely. So, what are you going to take away from this conversation?

Amanda [21:39]
Oh, gosh, what am I going to take away from this conversation? I think one of the big things is what we were just talking about: that community is crucial for your sense of meaning and purpose, even if you’re not reaching the audience you hoped for, or the size of the audience you hoped for. Realistically, no matter how high or how low your expectations are, there’s so much literature out there about trying to not even have realistic expectations but just to minimize them. Trying to minimize the number of expectations you have and cultivating your community is important. Writing can be such a solitary exercise and activity, but it shouldn’t be. Maybe the writing process needs solitude, quiet, and introspection, but the writing community is critical.

Amanda [22:38]
Absolutely.

Lisa [22:41]
Well, you know, I could talk to you for hours.

Amanda [22:43]
Oh, thanks. The feeling’s mutual.

Lisa [22:50]
I know, I know. That’s the hardest part.

Lisa [22:52]
So, I’m going to end with three lightning-round questions. The first is: What is the best piece of writing advice you’ve ever received?

Amanda [22:59]
We kind of just talked about this, but it’s to get involved in the writing community. There is so much you don’t know you don’t know. No matter how seasoned a writer you are, especially with AI right now, there’s so much you don’t know. You can learn from fellow writers, local booksellers, writing groups, writing workshops, and writing conferences. My debut novel would not exist if I had tried to do it entirely by myself. My writing groups, workshops, classes, and fellow authors were instrumental. Even my role as an outdoors writer would not have happened if I weren’t a member of the Virginia Outdoor Writers Association, because that’s how I found out about it. So, even if you join writing communities just to learn about opportunities, get involved in a writing community, whatever it is for you.

Lisa [23:48]
Shout out to James River Writers, which is a writing community that we’re both a part of, and that’s where I saw you, at the James River Writers Conference.

Amanda [23:55]
And without James River Writers, I would have never learned about the writing workshop that produced the first draft of what is now my debut novel. So yes, shout out to James River Writers, for sure.

Lisa [24:05]
I love that. So, as you’re working on your new project and promoting your book that’s out in the world, how are you nurturing your resilience?

Amanda [24:18]
You know, it’s probably not the wisest answer, but to be honest, one way I nurture my resilience is by thinking about all the writers I know who felt like failures. I teach American literature by day, and so many writers I teach, like F. Scott Fitzgerald and Walt Whitman, either felt like failures or were criticized as failures by literary critics, and now they’re revered as part of the canon, or otherwise successful. So, I remind myself that if my book has meant something to even a handful of people, even one person, then it was a worthwhile endeavor. I also remind myself that I love writing for the sake of writing, regardless of external results. I enjoy the process, so even if no one else cares about what I’m writing, I’m resilient in my writing because I write for myself, at least to an extent. I write because I have to; it’s like breathing. I might not get to do it every day, but I have to do it, and it’s a worthwhile exercise because I love it. I also try to use my writing for good, like charitable events and donations. Even if no one reads my work, if it means I donated 80% of the proceeds to an animal shelter, it did some good.

Lisa [25:44]
I love that. And I would say that the idea of imagining all the people who are in the same boat as you and who also felt like failures is a great exercise. In fact, the Dalai Lama encourages us to think about that in all kinds of situations because that’s how you build compassion and connection to everyone else.

Lisa [26:12]
If anyone wants to connect with you, learn more about you, or buy your beautiful book, how can they do that?

Amanda [26:12]
I’m on Instagram a lot @AmandaSueCreasey with an E, Y, Amanda_Sue_Creasey. I also have a website at AmandaSueCreasey.com. You can sign up for my newsletter on my website; it comes out every other Tuesday. I’m also on Substack at AmandaSuCreasey.substack.com.

Lisa [26:31]
All of that will be in the show notes. And shout out to your newsletter because, in addition to having some thoughtful content, we get to see your beautiful little dogs.

Amanda [26:40]
And Archie, the parrot now too. So, if nothing else, you get cute animal photos.

Lisa [26:47]
Cute animal photos, and it is a delight. So, if you just need a pick-me-up and you’re not even interested in writing, just look at those pictures and your life will be better.

Amanda [26:51]
Thank you.

Lisa [27:01]
Well, it has been an absolute delight to have you on today.

Lisa [27:03]
Thank you so much for being here, Amanda.

Amanda [27:05]
Thank you so much for having me. I’ve been looking forward to this. I have really enjoyed our conversation.